What would you buy with $20-25k if...

"MUSASHI66" (musashi66) 05/15/2020 at 17:42 • Filed to: None

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... it had to be 2016+ and you were planning on keeping it until 2030, with maybe 10k miles added per year, and you were buying 6-12 months from today.

...you didn’t have kids

... you want AWD

... you want some power

... you want some fun

... you want some luxury (low NVH levels)

... reliability is a must

... manual would be nice but not a must.

... you already have a pickup.

... you already have a crappy city car to zip around.

I’ve never driven a Lexus GS350, but it seems it would be a nice option.

Acura TLX is still a str ong contender.

MB C and E class, Audi A3/4/6, BMW 2/3/4/5/x1/x3 would all work, but I’m afraid of long term reliability.

Cadillac CTS V6 might be the bargain of the century - 2019's wi th MSRP of $60k and 20k on the clock are under $30k easily.

Volvo S90 T6 can be had in this price range, believe it or not. Volvo S60 T6 , or V60 T6?

I’ve seen Gi ulias that match the criteria. I don’t think I’d have the guts to buy a used one.

I’ve seen brand new Genesis G70's for under $30k, so used ones can’t be that far away.

Lincoln Continental?

Everything but Lexus and Acura has me scared for long term ownership. But, this would be one of three cars in the garage for two of us, so not a huge deal time wise if it isn’t a huge deal money wise.

What would you buy oppo?

dogisbadob > MUSASHI66 05/15/2020 at 18:13

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2016 Accord EX sedan :o)

fuck AWD you don’t need it just get winter tirez yo

The 9th Accord is fucking awesome! Even the 4-cylinder is really powerful, and it’s available with manual, and is also fun and reliable too! Even teh base model has plenty of features, but the higher EX model has even more than that!

If you can get by with a 2-door, they could have the V6 + manual combo all the way through 2017

WilliamsSW > MUSASHI66 05/15/2020 at 18:15

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S oo, I already have a pickup and a commuter beater?

Not sure why I need AWD then, so I want RWD. And manual. And roof optional. And fun handling.

And we all know the answer to that question...

Chariotoflove > MUSASHI66 05/15/2020 at 18:19

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I think a Genesis is one of your best choices.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > MUSASHI66 05/15/2020 at 18:25

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Miata

interstate366, now In The Industry > MUSASHI66 05/15/2020 at 18:37

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The GS, probably. I’d have to drive one to confirm, but having sat in one at an auto show I did like the inside . I *have* driven an AWD TLX and, while it ticks a lot of your boxes, the transmission is awful and overall it’s a step down from the 4th gen TL when it comes to fit and finish.

thatsmr > MUSASHI66 05/15/2020 at 18:45

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As an awd GS driver am biased, and the real mech rwd biased diff is cool. Materials and nvh blow acura away. Second Id say Genesis, and surely the deals are amazing, then my emotions say the guilia, the awd is actually a hoot to drive!

Jb boin > MUSASHI66 05/15/2020 at 18:55

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For me, if it has to be a sedan it would be a Giulia or a Jaguar XF (they exist in AWD i think) or something German, a Kia Stinger with the V6 will probably be over the budget ; not sure about the price and availability of the Volvo but i also like the idea .

If it doesn’t have to be a sedan i would consider a hatchback but it really depends on where you live.

Reliability should be a concern on models that have specific known pr oblems that cannot be fixed and/ o r easily verified when buying and it can also help you with the depreciation to buy a very nice car for cheaper than a “boring reliable” one and as you don’ t plan to re-sell the car for a long time it wont be an issue there either .

MUSASHI66 > dogisbadob 05/15/2020 at 19:00

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Winter tires don’t replace awd. I had winter tires on my wrx, and honestly they are not that good for Denver. 90% of the time, November through April, there’s no snow and you’re driving on loud winter tires for no reason.

I do like the Accord, but I’d get a TLX

Spanfeller is a twat > MUSASHI66 05/15/2020 at 19:02

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Im not sure if you can get an AWD Stinger for that yet, but I would. Yet I don’t understand the question for the same reason as WilliamsSW. I’d have a fiata  :p

MUSASHI66 > WilliamsSW 05/15/2020 at 19:04

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Yeah, nice NVH and Miata can’t be a part of the same sentence. 

MUSASHI66 > Chariotoflove 05/15/2020 at 19:05

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I like the G70. And manual is available as well.  It’ll probably get a test drive. 

MUSASHI66 > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 05/15/2020 at 19:05

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It’s never the answer. 

MUSASHI66 > interstate366, now In The Industry 05/15/2020 at 19:08

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GS350 hold their value well. A 2016 GS350 awd costs as much as a 2019 CTS. But I like that Lexus reliability.

TLX is probably luxurious enough for me, but I have to drive it first. If I could find a super low miles TL ShAwd... might consider it. 

Tapas > MUSASHI66 05/15/2020 at 19:12

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Either the GS or the S60!

MUSASHI66 > thatsmr 05/15/2020 at 19:16

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What year is your GS? How reliable has it been? 

WilliamsSW > MUSASHI66 05/15/2020 at 19:17

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What do you mean? The Miata has plenty of that!

Ok jokes aside, I leased a 2015 GS350 F sport and now have a 2014 E550 Merc - and I’ve driven most of the cars on your list.

The reality is that they have very different characters, and you should drive them to see what suits you best.

The RWD biased cars handle a lot differently than the FWD biased cars, and you can feel it in your butt when driving them. I’m a RWD bigot and proud of it, YMMV.

For me, the Caddy and Alfa have the best driving dynamics, but also the cheesiest interiors. So it depends on where you want the trade off.

Full disclosure- I haven’t driven the G70 or the Volvos- I did drive a G80.

The Mercedes I bought was maybe the softest car on your list, but the engine blew me away- an E350 is nice but soft and luxurious.

WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI > MUSASHI66 05/15/2020 at 19:19

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Oh HI!

Chariotoflove > MUSASHI66 05/15/2020 at 19:20

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And of course you’ll rush here to post about it while your impressions are fresh, right?

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > MUSASHI66 05/15/2020 at 19:22

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Jeep rubi

interstate366, now In The Industry > MUSASHI66 05/15/2020 at 19:32

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My TL had 60k on it when I got it almost 2 years ago. Up to about 84k now. If you can find one, get a 2013 or 2014, because 2012s and earlier have a whining propeller shaft issue.

thatsmr > MUSASHI66 05/15/2020 at 19:36

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I have a 2008 with about 98k. Bought it 18 months or so ago with 86k. Mine was all dealer serviced with brakes around 60k, etc. Sneaky fast, silent and almost Volvo seat comfortable. Ive done pics before but here is one

The gen 4s are a smidge big for my tastes, but if I wanted to spend, Id absolutely buy one. Being in the car biz, I got this for wholesale, its really doggo scratched up close but a beautiful 10 footer

MUSASHI66 > Jb boin 05/15/2020 at 19:38

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I’m not sure I’m so casual about long term reliability as you are. I don’t like the looks of the Jag. I love the Giulia, but have you seen the issues that they had with long term test in car magazines? Appalling reliability from day one. But they look like pure sex. 

MUSASHI66 > Spanfeller is a twat 05/15/2020 at 19:39

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No fiata. I’d have an Abarth 500 and I still might.

Stinger is just not calling my name. 

MUSASHI66 > Tapas 05/15/2020 at 19:40

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S60 or even  S90, with the light interior are awesome. I’m just concerned about long term reliability on those. 

MUSASHI66 > WilliamsSW 05/15/2020 at 19:56

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2015 ga350 f sport is on my list. I wish it was newer to get some toys like apple play, but I’d live. Pricing on CTS really surprised me. 2019 with seating package for under $30k seems like a steal. 

MUSASHI66 > WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI 05/15/2020 at 19:58

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We just went out to pick up food and drinks (thank you Colorado for allowing drinks to go). Saw a GTI while driving, and thought of the R. I’ll have to check prices on gently used ones.

But, I had a really terrible experience with a 2004 Touareg and I am scared of VW. Otherwise, R fits all my needs. 

MUSASHI66 > Chariotoflove 05/15/2020 at 20:00

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Of course :). We’ll take it slow for 6-12 months, but I might be trendy driving cars for a while until I find my next one. 

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > MUSASHI66 05/15/2020 at 20:00

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.....

Be 2/3 the way to a early   997 4s?

MUSASHI66 > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 05/15/2020 at 20:00

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Drove a Sport when we rented it to go over engineers pass in sw Colorado. Bar none, the most horrible on road experience I ever had with a vehicle. 

MUSASHI66 > interstate366, now In The Industry 05/15/2020 at 20:10

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Thanks! 

MUSASHI66 > thatsmr 05/15/2020 at 20:12

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Thanks! Yeah, 2008 is just a touch too old for me for a piece of mind for reliability, but then again, I took  my 2000 Tundra with a V8 on a 1000+ mile road trip with no reservations. 

MUSASHI66 > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 05/15/2020 at 20:14

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Those are very interesting to me, but I’m probably $10-15k away from what I’d like. Examples that sell for $25k are just too old. 

Jb boin > MUSASHI66 05/15/2020 at 20:14

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Yes, but they had “day one” models, most of the issues might have been fixed since (or not), i would check on forums to see more up-to-date and real-life information .

A nd if i recall correctly, the magazines were testing the Quadrifoglio Verde which is bound to be higher maintenance than other models .

WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI > MUSASHI66 05/15/2020 at 20:19

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The Trrrrrrreg is a far cry from modern VWs. The 2.0 (EA888) that’s in the R and GTI is pretty stout , and the fact they’ve been around so long means that the w eak points are known and there are preventative fixes.

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > MUSASHI66 05/15/2020 at 20:24

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Jk or JL?

dogisbadob > MUSASHI66 05/15/2020 at 20:27

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The TLX doesn’t have as much prestige as the ES350, and it isn’t available with the manual like the Accord is

Another good car I forgot: the Buick Regal TourX. In fact, you can get a brand new one for 25k. The non-TourX hatchback is also good

MUSASHI66 > Jb boin 05/15/2020 at 20:28

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I owned a man Abarth 500 and I do love that Italian charm. Giulia would be a perfect car. But I wonder how perfect it would be in 2025 or 2030. 

MUSASHI66 > WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI 05/15/2020 at 20:29

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Not a single thing was engine related. All electronics. 

MUSASHI66 > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 05/15/2020 at 20:29

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Good question. Can’t remember. 

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > MUSASHI66 05/15/2020 at 20:30

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JL is way, way different

avalonian > MUSASHI66 05/15/2020 at 20:31

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I have a 2014 Gs350 fsport RWD. So if you have questions shoot them my way, before than happy to assist.

MUSASHI66 > dogisbadob 05/15/2020 at 20:32

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I test drive the TourX. It was great. But, it’s in that weird space where it depreciates like a rock when new. I was offered a $10000 discount on a brand new one, but financing ruined the deal. Things might change as I can potentially just buy it out. 

WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI > MUSASHI66 05/15/2020 at 20:35

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Makes sense. I guess I don’t know how well the 20 15+ Golfs are in that regard.

Can’t be worse right!?

WilliamsSW > MUSASHI66 05/15/2020 at 20:38

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My GS was super reliable, and a comfy highway cruiser. Firmer than the Merc, but still prone to understeer more than the Caddy or Alfa.

The Merc has a way nicer interior IMHO.

For pure driving experience, I’d take the Cadillac with mag ride over any of them. But it’s smaller and interior isn’t as good.

All good cars, but it depends on how you prioritize   Features

MUSASHI66 > avalonian 05/15/2020 at 20:40

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Road noise at 80mph? General maintenance cost? Anything big went wrong? 

MUSASHI66 > WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI 05/15/2020 at 20:41

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Thankfully that Touareg was under warranty. It was bad. By far the worst car I’ve owned reliability wise. 

valsidalv, reminding you that infiniti is an option > MUSASHI66 05/15/2020 at 21:04

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I recently learned that the Q50 is a $2,300 tune away from 415 HP/475 ft-lb. $2,800 gets you the same tune with an intake good for 430 HP, and you can throw more money at it for even more power.

https://www.amsperformance.com/product-category/infiniti/performance-packages-infiniti/

Spanfeller is a twat > MUSASHI66 05/15/2020 at 21:06

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The Stinger is a car that does many things “ok” and with the stupid engine its the best highway cruiser I’ve been able to use. But I can understand how a car that does things "ok" is not exactly appealing

WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI > MUSASHI66 05/15/2020 at 21:07

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Well it was kinda a Volkswagen, kinda a Porsche, and kinda an Audi so.......

LastFirstMI is my name > MUSASHI66 05/15/2020 at 21:13

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Just buy a Lexus. I went from an Audi to a BMW to a Lexus and I will never go back. My AWD IS350 is fast enough, comfy, and reliable. My M3 and Allroad? Well,  each of those cars scored 1 out of those 3 categories. Full disclosure, I’ve turned into something of a Toyota fanboy, with an FJ and a Land Cruiser. I’m lusting after a GS-F or GS 350 F sport next....

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > MUSASHI66 05/15/2020 at 21:20

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I know someone with a 2004 s60r. 250k. somehow the thing still runs. they take shit care of it, and at times is one of the cheapest bastards I know, but it somehow still drives.

MUSASHI66 > WilliamsSW 05/15/2020 at 21:28

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Lexus sounds like a winner for me. 

MUSASHI66 > valsidalv, reminding you that infiniti is an option 05/15/2020 at 21:29

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No tunes, no Nissan. 

MUSASHI66 > Spanfeller is a twat 05/15/2020 at 21:29

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Specs are great, but I just don’t dig it. 

MUSASHI66 > LastFirstMI is my name 05/15/2020 at 21:31

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IS is on my list but I think I’d like the gs more. I’m getting old. How reliable is your is?

avalonian > MUSASHI66 05/15/2020 at 21:31

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Since I have the fsport, I have more rim and less rubber. However, it is pretty quiet and if you’re at 80 it feels alot faster. But 70-75ish is best for fuel economy. There is a recall for the fuel pumps right now but of course covered thru lexus. And what’s caught me off guard about these cars is the way they hold value. I saw one with 127,00 miles for 13 grand. Mine has 47ish and I put less than 7,000 miles per year due to having another car I drive. And nothing big problems air conditioned seats are awesome they are also automatic. Make sure to get mark Levinson sound system. SHIT SLAPPS, and yeah nothing to crazy of course with fsport you get all the bells and whistles and power folding mirrors which is so cool to 24 year old me lol. But lemme know if you have more questions, I have driven the AWD version it is a bit slower and sits taller like there is a tire gap when parked next to each other mine is low and way more aggressive and the awd doesn’t have as much power or it’s not the best. And there isn’t really a strong aftermarket its either cheap and is250 or stupid expensive were it makes no sense.

MUSASHI66 > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 05/15/2020 at 21:32

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Those Rs are awesome. Didn’t know the can make it past 150k. 

WilliamsSW > MUSASHI66 05/15/2020 at 21:39

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I did a detailed review of mine about 2 years ago on Oppo, I'd recommend it. 

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > MUSASHI66 05/15/2020 at 21:40

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I should note this is someone who on multiple occasaions is on the edge fo JRITS, which i don’t know is a testiment to Volvo or his cheapness.

LastFirstMI is my name > MUSASHI66 05/15/2020 at 21:43

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Lexus reliable. In the 2.5 years (20,000 miles) I’ve owned it, had to replace a front strut and the battery . That’s it. I almost bought a GTI instead, and am totally convinced I made the right choice.

Interior is Corolla- cozy in the IS , so the GS makes more sense if you regularly ride with other full-size humans in the back seat. My kids are taller than me now but I ignore them when they complain. I park in a parking garage, so I like the smaller footprint.

MUSASHI66 > avalonian 05/15/2020 at 21:43

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awesome, thanks!! I want the F just for  red leather seats.

MUSASHI66 > LastFirstMI is my name 05/15/2020 at 21:45

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No kids but  I like space. I love hearing about Lexus reliability. 

valsidalv, reminding you that infiniti is an option > MUSASHI66 05/15/2020 at 22:00

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Why?

WilliamsSW > MUSASHI66 05/15/2020 at 22:12

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 You should have gotten mine 2 years ago!  Under 40k miles, AWD F sport and that dark red leather!

MUSASHI66 > valsidalv, reminding you that infiniti is an option 05/15/2020 at 22:27

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I don’t want to tune my car and I don’t like Nissans. 

avalonian > MUSASHI66 05/15/2020 at 22:27

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HHaha, I actually have that color interior.

MUSASHI66 > WilliamsSW 05/15/2020 at 22:28

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My search parameters are that, but with 30k miles or under. I love that red. The cognac isn’t shabby either. 

MUSASHI66 > avalonian 05/15/2020 at 23:03

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/drool

WilliamsSW > MUSASHI66 05/16/2020 at 08:16

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https://oppositelock.kinja.com/2015-lexus-gs350-f-sport-the-long-term-oppo-review-1826267070

The review may sound harsher than I really meant,  but I tried hard to point out the good and the bad.   One thing to note is that,  like seemingly all Japanese V6s, the gas mileage isn't very good.   I got 21 mpg consistently, in mostly around town driving.  My Merc weighs 300 lb more and has 100+ extra horses, and gets 19 or so.  

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > MUSASHI66 05/16/2020 at 08:31

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You’re never gonna endanger any manifolds with that attitude 

avalonian > MUSASHI66 05/16/2020 at 09:04

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They call it cabernet btw lol. 

MUSASHI66 > WilliamsSW 05/16/2020 at 22:24

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That’s a nice review. My biggest fear would be hating the infotainment. I have apple CarPlay in the 2000 tundra and I think I’ll hate a crappy system in a nice expensive car.

My local Lexus dealership has a nice one in stock. I think I just have to make my way there, drive it, and if I like it, convince my wife that sedan is better than a RDX. 

MUSASHI66 > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 05/16/2020 at 22:25

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Nope, and I don’t have laptop to check for manifold damage or bolted floor pans. 

MUSASHI66 > avalonian 05/16/2020 at 22:27

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Rose by any other name... I love the color, and I love the caramel/cognac one as well. 

WilliamsSW > MUSASHI66 05/16/2020 at 23:57

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The stereo in the car is fantastic - even without the Mark Levinson option. And the screen is huge and bright. It’s the input device that sucks.

avalonian > MUSASHI66 05/17/2020 at 19:41

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The caramel color only works well on the white cars, it's too mixed for it to work in the other colors tbh. Based off the EXTENSIVE research I did before pulling the trigger.

MUSASHI66 > WilliamsSW 05/17/2020 at 21:58

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I guess I’d just have to live with bluetooth. Car Play spoiled me. 

MUSASHI66 > avalonian 05/17/2020 at 21:59

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Good thing I love Lexus white options. But I think I’d be OK with it with gray as well.